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Corona Starter And Changes To Pro - Discuss!
Started by DavidRangel Apr 05 2013 08:08 AM

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#76

paulhunt5

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As a someone who has been watching corona from the outside for a while trying to decided on wether or not to buy, I have a few thoughts. I think that corona may be overreaching with the new $600/year price and here's why: as several people have noted you are now in unity's price range. What hasn't been mentioned is that from all indications unity will be rolling out a 2d mode this year. If they do that then corona will be in the unenviable position of being in the same price rang as an engine that can deploy to many more platforms and gives you much more functionality.

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#77

DavidRangel

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paulhunt5 - thanks for the thoughts. And your points are valid and well taken. However, I have to slightly disagree on 2 things:

 

1) Pricing - Assuming you are publishing for mobile, Corona SDK Pro (at $599) will be comparable to Unity's $800 "free" tier. Except that Unity which has the following restrictions:

- Unity splash screen

- only usable by small companies (<$100k in revenue)

- a number of other graphics restrictions

 

And by saying comparable I am already taking into account the subscription nature of Corona, vs. the pay "once" nature of Unity (plus a 50% payment to upgrade 1-2 years later).

 

If you are a slightly larger company, or want to get rid of the restrictions, then you are talking about paying Unity $4500 - which is a *lot* more than $599/year.

 

2) Functionality - You are absolutely right in that Unity publishes to a lot of platforms. But the action right now is in mobile. And if you are a mobile developer, you have little interest in publshing for Xbox, PS, Wii, etc. Of course, I am generalizing, but that is generally true. We (Corona) are well aware of other mobile platforms (e.g., Win8) and will support them when they get any reasonable market share.

 

Finally - Unity does do a ton of things. That is absolutely true, it is a fantastic tool. But many of those things are not needed if you are making 2D games and apps. In fact, we feel Corona is a tool that is better suited to that - you will develop more quickly and efficiently with Corona. And as always, time is money.

 

So in the end, we feel we compare very favorably. But again, you are absolutely right in that Unity is a very capable tool.



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#78

LairdGames

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I personally think it is a mistake to compare Corona to Unity 3D.

 

- Corona is the best 2D engine

 

- Unity 3D is the best 3D engine 

 

So i think it is like comparing apple to oranges.

 

Still David,

 

1- Having a splash screen from Unity is really not the end of the World for most small indies. Especially it is a good looking one like Unity! I think it even enhance the app developer since it shows that he/she used the best 3D engine out there in this case.  Of course for more serious dev it is another ball game..

 

2- Let's be frank and say that most of us here will never see $100K!! Trust me, if one day I make 100K+, you could charge me $5K for the SDK and I will still buy it!

 

I also be interested in finding more about the upcoming graphic features. Frankly that's all I am interested about at this time. Maybe if those plug-in enable us to use Chartboost then I would also enjoy that!

 

Thanks for letting us vent:)

 

Mo



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#79

paulhunt5

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I do see your point about the pricing. If someone Is OK with the unity splash screen you can get unity with iOS + android for $800 and since the paid upgrades are about 1 1/2 years apart that is cheaper than coronas $600/year, but without the splash it is a very high $4500, so pricing is tough to compare. A lot of it does come down to whether corona will support bb10 and win8 and whether or not a developer will ever need any part of the 3d functionality.

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#80

paulhunt5

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I personally think it is a mistake to compare Corona to Unity 3D.
 
- Corona is the best 2D engine
 
- Unity 3D is the best 3D engine 
 
So i think it is like comparing apple to oranges.
 
Mo


My point was that if unity delivers on the 2d mode then it won't be comparing a 2D engine vs a 3D engine, it will be a 2D engine vs a 2D+3D engine.

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#81

ubj3d.android

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Can you write your own plugins with Unity ? (access to native libraries)

 

Do not forget that this feature is $999 per year for indy developers for Corona, that is the one decision I cannot agree with Corona labs.



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#82

paulhunt5

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Can you write your own plugins with Unity ? (access to native libraries)
 
Do not forget that this feature is $999 per year for indy developers for Corona, that is the one decision I cannot agree with Corona labs.


My understanding is that with the "pro" version of unity you can write plug ins.

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#83

open768

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My point was that if unity delivers on the 2d mode then it won't be comparing a 2D engine vs a 3D engine, it will be a 2D engine vs a 2D+3D engine.

agreed @paul max and the magic marker should convince about unity's 2d capabilities, http://maxandthemagicmarker.com/demo/ 



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#84

spideri

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agreed @paul max and the magic marker should convince about unity's 2d capabilities, http://maxandthemagicmarker.com/demo/ 

 

I wondered why it was crashing for me and then saw the text:

*Please be aware that some browsers have a tendency to crash – if you experience any problems please try an alternate browser*

 

I'm running Chrome under Win8 so maybe that combination isn't supported yet. It's a nice game when it works but it's not filling me with much confidence.



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#85

theginbin

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Dear Corona,
Thank you for the free option, but your team really should've consulted a behavioral economist before making these decisions on pricing. Once people see "FREE", they are compelled to choose the free option no matter how irrational it may be. Not only that, when you originally set the value of something, people cannot separate that original value from the new value being set no matter how useful the product may be to them (think how angry people get with rumors of having to pay for things like Facebook or Twitter). In this way, you're hurting your own business as new customers will only choose free and many current customers can't justify the difference in value from the original pricing. 
 
See Dan Ariely's research:
"I developed an appreciation for the surprising power of FREE! from the experiments my colleagues and I conducted on how people respond to things when their cost is zero (included in Predictably Irrational). For instance, when we set up a temporary candy stand and sold mouthwatering Lindt truffles (which usually cost around 50 cents) for 15 cents and ho-hum Hershey Kisses for 1 cent, 73% of the chocolate-lovers who stopped by made the rational decision and chose the superior and highly discounted Lindt truffles. But when we lowered the price by 1 cent for each item—resulting in a cost of 14 cents and 0 cents respectively—suddenly demand reversed and 69% of consumers chose the free Kisses."
 
Consider that Adobe offers a subscription for most of its very expensive software plus Cloud storage for around $30/month, nearly half of what Corona is asking for a few key features to add to a free SDK. The value logic doesn't add up. Sorry to make the comparison, but this is the perspective of a seasoned Flash/HTML game dev working in advertising for 10 years looking to make a living off of mobile games. 
 
And now I'm off to learn Cocos2d!


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#86

DavidRangel

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theginbin - thanks for the comments, but let me give you my take on it.

 

Ariely's research around the truffle and Kisses shows that people react "irrationally" around something that is *free*. In other words, more people choose the free product that you would otherwise rationally expect (this is also what Daniel Kahneman calls "fast thinking"). On that we agree.

 

Now, according to your post this will hurt us because people will choose Corona SDK Starter (free) over Corona SDK Pro in an irrational way. But you make 2 assumptions:

 

1) That our universe is people choosing only among Corona versions - which is clearly not true. We live in a universe with other options (free and non-free) as well. So according to the same research, there will now be more people choosing free Corona over other (non-Corona, non-free) options. Which is exactly what we want - we want even more people to choose Corona.

 

2) That people make a hasty (or potentially irrational) decision around what development platform to use. This may or may not be true. If it is, then we are right in having a free option as more people will adopt it (over competitors). If it isn't true, then this is all a non-issue.

 

Now - the remaining step, getting people to upgrade from Starter (free) to Pro is also an exercise in pricing, but has nothing to do with the Ariely free vs. non-free research. Once someone has developed an app and is making money (or wants to make money), it is likely that they will take a more rational approach (slow thinking). The *FREE bias* will not have an impact on most at that point - they will make a decision to upgrade if the benefits they get will outweigh the costs. So it is important for us (Corona Labs) to make sure Corona SDK Pro has features that will let people make better apps/more money. And we believe that's what we are doing.

 

 

Finally, let me ask you: what is your decision to use Cocos 2D based on?



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#87

JonPM

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I think arguing about the new structure is pretty pointless at this time.  It is already implemented, and I doubt it will change anytime soon.  Obviously the smart thing for CL to do is to continue with the current structure and gather all the relevant data.  Then they will reassess the financial impact and at that point consider changing the structure.  What we say here won't hold much weight, it's what the customers do.  



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#88

open768

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I wondered why it was crashing for me and then saw the text:

*Please be aware that some browsers have a tendency to crash – if you experience any problems please try an alternate browser*

 

I'm running Chrome under Win8 so maybe that combination isn't supported yet. It's a nice game when it works but it's not filling me with much confidence.

 

@spideri - doesnt work for me on chrome either on win7, but thats not  the point and has nothing to do with building confidence of unity or of the game (not that I'm defending either) . Use a different browser as it suggests. 



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#89

thodah11

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And yes I do know I won't have to pay 600$ in the next 2 years. But still, I have to consider what will happend after those two years pass by. Then I will have to pay 600$ and still I will not have offline builds, and probably won't be able to write plugins.

 

I see no reason NOT to include Offline Builds in the PRO package. Should be standard if you pay . People who wants to use custom libs will still buy the enterprice version. Not including offline builds for paining customers might make people just sticking with the Starter thingy.



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#90

Falcon777

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I support the idea for offline build for pro subscribers. There are times where we are faced with limited or no internet connectivity yet we need to make changes to the codes for testing to device.

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#91

davemikesell

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Mauricio - no one is asking you to throw more money in right now. The price is $349 for 3.5 more weeks. Furthermore, as a subscriber, you have *2 more years* where you will be able to renew at $349. So we are not asking you, at all, to throw more cash at us. Let me make that very clear. Your price is not changing until some time in 2015! :)

 

How do I renew for $349?   I've been a subscriber for two years and my current expires in five days.    When I click on the Renew Now button in the Simulator, it takes me to a page where I only see options for Free, Pro, and Enterprise.   



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#92

DavidRangel

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davemikesell - send an email to renewals@coronalabs.com, and mention the email you use for your Corona account. We'll get back to you asap.



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#93

joshua.valentine.25

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I do see your point about the pricing. If someone Is OK with the unity splash screen you can get unity with iOS + android for $800 and since the paid upgrades are about 1 1/2 years apart that is cheaper than coronas $600/year, but without the splash it is a very high $4500, so pricing is tough to compare. A lot of it does come down to whether corona will support bb10 and win8 and whether or not a developer will ever need any part of the 3d functionality.

 

Does your opinion change now that Unity has dropped the price of  IOS + Android from $800 to FREE? http://blogs.unity3d.com/2013/05/21/putting-the-power-of-unity-in-the-hands-of-every-mobile-developer/



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#94

DavidRangel

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joshua.valentine.25 - I just posted about this here:

http://forums.coronalabs.com/topic/35216-corona-vs-unity/

 

One thing to note as well is that Unity Pro is $4500 vs Corona's $599. But I think the key point is what I said in the other thread about 2D vs. 3D.



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#95

c0ppo

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It's true, you can't compare 2D vs 3D engine. But then again, you are comparing unity prices with corona price...

 

And if you really want to compare it, you simply can't. Corona PRO doesn't even have offline builds...



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#96

tootable

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Just realised I should have posted this question here rather than the blog post: I’ve just come back from a break from Corona development. I missed the renewal cut off date (just caught up on the news today) and my license would have expired about now without the two month extension date. Is it possible for me to renew the Pro subscription now at 349 or have I missed the boat?

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#97

DavidRangel

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tootable - if your subscription was active on April 30, then you are eligible. Just email renewals@coronalabs.com




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