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RE Privacy Policy Concerns: Turn Corona Data Collection OFF!
Started by kRona Dec 06 2012 04:22 AM

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#1

kRona

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We need to have the option to Turn Corona Data Collection OFF, especially regarding this latest garbage about privacy policies. We used to have this option. Personally, I do not collect any info and I don't care too. Having Corona do this without consent is unfortunately pretty messed up and seems like it could be putting me at risk for trouble especially because I live in California. I make about $4 a week from my app so hiring a lawyer is not really an option. I'm already paying a substantial license fee for the use of Corona, so I really don't think it is valid to have you collect data from my users without my consent and if I am not planning on using any of that data. This is important and not something to be messed around with, we need this option back now.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/12/ca-to-app-devs-get-privacy-policies-or-risk-2500-per-download-fines/

http://www.coronalabs.com/blog/2012/12/04/corona-developers-and-privacy-policies/
uid: 8139 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 333722


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#2

Pixin

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I don't have the links but I believe there's a code snippet you can put in your build file.
uid: 40033 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134085


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#3

kRona

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Oh WOW really? That would be great if you could pass that along! I didn't know that was an option, all I remember was that if you wanted to use GameCenter you were automatically sending stuff to Corona and you could not turn it off....
uid: 8139 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134091


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#4

Anderoth

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Yes if you use gameNetwork it is automatically turned on. There are other things that turn it on as well. I have not read anything about this changing. It would be nice if this were changed. I feel this should be totally optional.

First UDID was cracked down on, now Privacy Policies are an issue. I would not be surprised if analytics just gets more and more complicated because of politics.

In the end, just give us full control of turning launchPad on/off regardless of what parts of Corona we use. At the minimum it should be clearly stated somewhere what causes launchPad to be forced on. Why should we need to guess?
uid: 56820 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134095


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#5

kRona

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@anderoth precisely. It NEEDS to be an option and NOW. I see no reason why our apps should be sending data to Ansca/Corona without our consent or the user's consent. This is very sticky, especially with this new privacy law. I'm really in no mood for a $2500 fine per download, that is unbelievable in of itself. But when I say my app does not collect any data, I really can't say that....or I can't be sure because Ansca/Corona is doing it behind the scenes. I do not need this. So what now....get the option or get a new development platform.....?

Seriously, this is not just on the wish list of features, it is actually a necessity now.
uid: 8139 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134098


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#6

EHO

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Would like to know if we find out a solution to this whether it's code based or otherwise.
uid: 105707 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134120


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#7

bjsorrentino

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Hello all,
This appears to be a serious concern. I'll bring it up when I collaborate with the team tomorrow (Friday). Should have a clearer answer then.

Brent Sorrentino
uid: 200026 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134128


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#8

DavidRangel

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Hey guys - we DO have a way to turn this off. I don't remember it this instant, but will look into it ASAP and we will post here in the next hour or two. I am sure this is also in our docs by the way.

We'll get back to you.

David
uid: 10668 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134193


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#9

kRona

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@Brent @David awesome, thanks!!! Corona rocks as usual.

Originally I did not think much of the data collection it's just a bunch of stats, but now that the issue has been all twisted by lawyers and politicians....
uid: 8139 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134194


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#10

Anderoth

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There is a key you can add to the config.lua to disable it. That is listed in the docs, however there are some modules that kick it back on. This is the text from the online docs. The note informing us it overrides our setting is what is concerning to some.

LaunchPad

Corona's Launchpad is enabled by default. To disable LaunchPad, you must create a config.lua file and add a launchPad key:

application =
{
        launchPad = false,
}

Note: Setting "require credits", "require gameNetwork", or "require ads" in your code will enable LaunchPad and override this setting.
uid: 56820 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134195


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#11

schizoid2k

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To further the discussion...

I was planning on using Flurry in my next game to collect a lot of useful stats. Is this something that users should "opt-in"? I, too, do not want any issues with legal concerns, so I am now leaning more towards publishing the app with analytics turned off, and allowing the user to opt-in.

The downside is that I will only be collecting analytics from a subset of users.
uid: 114363 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134198


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#12

kRona

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@schizoid2k just to clarify, there is no law against collecting stats. In fact it's a good thing, that's probably why all the big players do it. If you have the time, the expertise, and you want to play that game you can probably dial it down to predicting where your next penny will come from and where you need to spend your next penny on marketing.

What is happening now is all the lawyers and politicians are getting involved and stating that if you collect any type of data, you need to have a sanctified privacy policy telling your user exactly what you are collecting and what you are doing with that data. I don't think the user needs to opt into it as of yet, but once again you probably need to check with a lawyer to be certain.

Personally, I don't have the money to hire a lawyer, and I'm not really interested in collecting user data on my apps. Maybe that's foolish while trying to survive in this app economy, but in my naivety I thought I could just make a quality game that I would love for people to enjoy and they would just buy it if I put the word out enough! Silly me :0)
uid: 8139 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134203


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#13

schizoid2k

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@kRona, thanks for the clarification. I believe I have the same concerns as you previously mentioned. Like you, I don't want to spend time and money on lawyers, etc, so this is an interesting topic to discuss, and hopefully there is some acceptable middle-ground.

Perhaps I am thinking a bit too much about this, but I would love to collect some analytics data, but I am fearful that if I do not allow the user to turn that "feature" on or off, that it might put off some people and they will not install or play my game. I do not plan on collecting any personal info, but I think at the very least, I need to inform users that some gameplay data is being collected in order to improve the game moving forward.

I have a bit of a way to go before my app is released, so I do have time to think about it. Not sure if I will enable analytics for this reason alone.
uid: 114363 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134210


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#14

cspence

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Requiring Flurry (analytics) also turns on LaunchPad which it shouldn't. This really needs to be broken out to be completely optional. Unless something specifically requires it (like turning on Corona analytics specifically) nothing should force you to turn on Corona analytics. We are not using a free service that uses data collection as a means to balance a free offering.

uid: 160288 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134214


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#15

DavidRangel

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Hi Everyone -

First, I want to make sure we are on the same page on 2 things:

1) We (Corona Labs) are very open about what data we collect and under what circumstances

2) This whole thing in CA is *not* about a problem with collecting/sending/using data. The issue is that if an app does this, the developer needs to be clear about what he is doing and *disclose* it via a privacy policy. That is all.

So, now that we are on the same page, here is an update:

1) anderoth is correct. If you use the credits, gamenetwork or ads libraries, you will automatically send Corona Labs analytics data.

2) As we state in our own privacy policy and licensing agreement, we do not use that data for any other purpose than to show it to you and aggregate it for our own analytics. We do *not* use individual developers' data in any way and we do *not* share any data with anyone.

3) Now, here is a very key point: if you use any of these 3rd party services (e.g., game network), or even if you store data on your own servers, you *ALREADY* need a privacy policy. Because there is data that you are collecting and sending somewhere else.

So here is what we are discussing right now and propose doing. Since the vast majority of app developers (Corona or not) should have a privacy policy (even if they don't collect data), we think Corona developers should have privacy policies as well. And we want to help you guys have a privacy policy without needing to hire expensive attorneys (believe me, we don't enjoy this either).

So we are going to ask our attorneys to develop a privacy policy template that we can make available to Corona developers. The idea is that you would take this doc, customize it in certain easy ways, and you would have a good privacy policy to post on your site.

Let me know your thoughts. Also feel free to email me directly: davidATcoronalabs

David
uid: 10668 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134218


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#16

Anderoth

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This may be helpful to all involved. I found this in an article discussing the CA law. It has a wizard allowing you to make a quick, plain english, custom privacy policy.

http://www.privacychoice.org/policymaker
uid: 56820 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134220


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#17

schizoid2k

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So we are going to ask our attorneys to develop a privacy policy template that we can make available to Corona developers. The idea is that you would take this doc, customize it in certain easy ways, and you would have a good privacy policy to post on your site.

@DavidRangel, that would be great! I would appreciate that, and would definitely help.
uid: 114363 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134233


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#18

cspence

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That would good, but I would also like to see the ability to disable CA unless you specifically want to turn it on. I don't see what it should be tied into any other service.

Also, no where does it say if you enable Flurry that CA is required, yet when you try to use Flurry it does in fact turn on CA.
uid: 160288 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134238


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#19

J. A. Whye

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I'm kind of wanting to get a letter from California so I can tell them to kiss my a**.

If I don't have a privacy policy then people can refuse to download my app. It should be up to the customer whether they care about that or not.

Politicians suck.

Jay
uid: 9440 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134268


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#20

kRona

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@. J.A. Whye

HAHAAAA YEAH!!!! You rock.

Total BS it is, that's for sure.

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#21

Dotnaught

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Iubenda.com offers a privacy policy service:
https://www.iubenda.com/

But we do need to specify exactly what gets collected from the services we implement and from the ones we can't remove.

David, it would be great if the Corona privacy template made this info available.
uid: 1560 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134512


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#22

kRona

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@DavidRangel

"So we are going to ask our attorneys to develop a privacy policy template that we can make available to Corona developers. The idea is that you would take this doc, customize it in certain easy ways, and you would have a good privacy policy to post on your site."

I think that is a fantastic offer, really very nice of you guys.
uid: 8139 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134514


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#23

LairdGames

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Now i am freaked out! I am using Flurry on my first app (in review right now) Do i need a privacy policy or can I just be fine with Flurry having its own policy? By the way, where do you put that policy text? I first thought to put the text in the App EULA section on iTunes but but I do not think it is related to the privacy policy that we are talking about here.

By the way, is it possible to turn off Flurry remotely (on their web site) or do I need to change my code and re-sent to Apple for review again. Please say NO!

Thanks.

Mo

EDIT: I am really thinking about rejecting my binary and remove all thing Flurry and resend to Apple for review...Unless I can find a way to stop the app from sending analytics without changing my code. It just would delay my app review since I want to release 12/19/2012 Is it worth it to do?
uid: 100814 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134524


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#24

cspence

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Technically you don't even need a privacy policy and Apple will approve your app (unless there is a different problem). I think this will change in the future with the Californian law and other things putting pressure on Apple. But right now you don't need anything.

I recommend making one though, and making it available at least on a website. There is no rule that you even have to have it IN the app. 90% of the Apps don't even have a privacy policy.
uid: 160288 topic_id: 33722 reply_id: 134529


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#25

Stephen Lewis

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I have Flurry enabled in order to collect custom event data so I know how my customers are using features in the app. I'm not intentionally collecting or transmitting UUIDs, names, email addresses, phone numbers, GPS location, etc. but I could find no documentation on what data is actually being transmitted by the simple act of enabling Flurry or the Corona dashboard.

So how can I draft a meaningful privacy policy if I don't know what data is being collected by my own app? Once collected how it is being used? I would appreciate some official and detailed documentation on what data is being collected by Coronalabs and/or Flurry so that I may be able to create a privacy policy that means what it says.

Thanks!
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